DT125R ARCHIVE

eG x LoGiKzZ · Guru

RE: 4DL2 BELGARDA engine plus 38mm Keihin project

AndyYam · Guru

Had a look at my mates belgarda today. P on the Head, P on the barrel and SS on the engine casings.

NEV · Guru

does he know what the 'S S' means on his casing?

AndyYam · Guru

He's not a clue no. Might be worth an email to Yamaha Italia? We got it running yesterday and had a little ride up the road. Really boggy and when it warmed up and we took the choke off, as soon as we gave it some revs and released the clutch it stalled. Gonna have to have carb off again. Engine felt nice other than that and revved nicely when it would.

coastie123 · DTR Senior Member

Just my little input but SS would be stan Stevens...

SR could possibly be "shiny ray tuning" but he usually uses SRT and only touches "Ped" engines!!

AndyYam · Guru

Good guess but these are the same kind of marks as on the barrel and head that Belgarda marked during production.

coastie123 · DTR Senior Member

Nev have a read of my post again...

SS - Stan Stevens
SR - Shiny Red Tuning perhaps??

SP on the barrel etc is sports production not performance...

-- Edited by coastie123 on Sunday 30th of September 2012 12:03:04 PM

NEV · Guru

Aye Coastie, the 'SP' stamped on the Engines, barrels etc, are stamped at the Belgarda factory, I have read before somewhere it stands for 'Sport Performance,' as I'd only ever heard of 'SP' or 'P' being stamped anywhere, but doing a translation from Italian to English I get 'Prestazione di Sport' for 'Sport Performance' so if anything it would've been stamped 'PS' I would've thought, now I see that mine has an 'SR' and Andys mates bike has 'SS' the mark, I'm more in the thinking it's just some sort of coding. The 4DL head and 4DL barrel had been taken off mine, so I've no idea what was stamped on those.

Btw Andy I'm taking it that your mates 4DL engine has the 'SS' stamped here?

NEV · Guru

I can see where ya coming from Coastie, but they're stamped back at the Belgarda factory,in Italy, as far as I know mate.

Nathlaad · DTR Legend

Soz lads, i wrote that on the back with tipex, it stands for Saucy Rabbits!

NEV · Guru

Nath lad, if you're alright, I don't wanna be.

NEV · Guru

oh aye talking of stamping Nath lad, see about banging some post codes in different places on that frame of yours while its back to bare bones

AndyYam · Guru

Thats right nev thats where his is stamped. I was told that SP was sports production too. Maybe yours is Sports Racing.

Or maybe the R in in fact a P and someones just chiped a line next to it :P

Nathlaad · DTR Legend

the ZX frame? if so that one's gone!

miguelNS · DTR Respected Member

Hey mate, nice engine! Are you thinking of putting it on the dtr? You will have to remove the air box to fit that in its right place. nice work!!

NEV · Guru

Yes Miguel, I'm looking for a frame to put the engine into, I need to sort some stuff on it still, I'm off to an engineering firm tomorrow to see about putting a new liner into the barrel, so as to put a 5mm oversize Wossner DT piston into it, I'll also be nicosil plating it. Do you really think I'll need to remove the airbox so as to get that Malossi filter on? cheers mate I never thought of that, you Portugese are certainly on the ball.

miguelNS · DTR Respected Member

If you want that air filter for sure you will have to take it off, but you can fit the carb there without that filter, and with a little bit of work you can use dtr stock filter too

DT-R_bradders · Guru

lol

miguelNS · DTR Respected Member

didnt really got your question....

creamsodauk · DTR Respected Member

shiney red aka srt uses his porting tool to engrave engines and it wont look anywhere near as neat as that, that looks factory in the sence that the letters are so sharp and its not stan stephens either as again he writes his not stamped

NEV · Guru

Aye its deffo factory stamped, I'm pretty sure its a month code or similar, seeing as there is an SR, and SS, presumably theres a ST out there somewhere too. Plus Shiney only touches 2t scooters not geared bikes.

As for the engine, I made inroads at John Tremletts over in Ashburton, with regards to re-lining the barrel, he'd have to send it off to get that done, but it looks like going with an alloy liner then Nicosil plating it, another thing I didn't know is that Nicosil plated alloy lined barrels are 4 times more efficient in dispersing heat than the normal cast iron liners, and seeing as how the engine will be revving somewhere near 13,000 revs at the very top end, it's going to be getting pretty warm. Ordering the 5mm oversize Wossner piston on Monday to start the ball rolling.

FunkeyMunkeyDavid · Guru

thats why the clearances can be that little bit tighter,because the piston and barrel then expand at the same rate biggrin all helps push up that hp. they do it on they're motox bikes,bit dissapointing how little they did with the dt really hmm especially as when you buy a ktm or aprilia its all gp/motox stuff

miguelNS · DTR Respected Member

NEV wrote:
Aye its deffo factory stamped, I'm pretty sure its a month code or similar, seeing as there is an SR, and SS, presumably theres a ST out there somewhere too. Plus Shiney only touches 2t scooters not geared bikes.

As for the engine, I made inroads at John Tremletts over in Ashburton, with regards to re-lining the barrel, he'd have to send it off to get that done, but it looks like going with an alloy liner then Nicosil plating it, another thing I didn't know is that Nicosil plated alloy lined barrels are 4 times more efficient in dispersing heat than the normal cast iron liners, and seeing as how the engine will be revving somewhere near 13,000 revs at the very top end, it's going to be getting pretty warm. Ordering the 5mm oversize Wossner piston on Monday to start the ball rolling.

your going to re-line your cylinder with alloy?! alloy of what? there are many kinds of alloy. nicasil is very good, but in portugal very expensive.

you will add the 5mm oversize piston because you want, or because the cylinder has been corrected many times?

Cameron · Guru

Won't you have problems with the power valve going that far oversize?

NEV · Guru

Ah yes, already sussed that one, it'll need pinning open, as to take off enough so the piston misses it, my chappy reckons it'd go through to the 2 inside dowel pins, making it too weak.

miguelNS · DTR Respected Member

NEV wrote:
the same alloy liner they use in the 4FU/4FL engines, I'm going with the 5mm oversize pison because I can, i'm running a 2.5mm TZR piston in the Black/Green bike.

it isnt iron?! 2.5mm oversize?! like 58.5mm?! thats to much, no?

NEV · Guru

2.5mm oversize?! like 58.5mm?! thats to much, no?

No, not at all Miguel, my bike runs pretty good with a 2.5mm oversize piston. I think you underestimate our engineering capabilities over here mate, we're always trying to push the boundries, not just in making our bikes look good, but also having them perform to their best potential.

NEV · Guru

lol cheers for your concern Miguel, but the 2.5mm overbore is pretty much run of the mill over here, and as long as you look after it by running it in properly, regular oil changes etc, it pretty much takes everything that you can throw at it, as for the 5mm overbore, well to be honest, if I see that Wossner makes a piston that size, and specifically for a DT, then obviously I'm going to have a go at fitting it into an engine, and seeing as how I've researched all the places to on how to engineer it, by replacing the liner for an alloy one then nicosil plating it, I'm going to do that, and if it all works and I get a 145cc bike that runs like Jack ****, then other people will obviously want to have a go, and do the same with their bikes, have a look at some of the other projects in here a couple of lads are doing at the minute, one lad is putting a 200 barrell onto a 125 bottom end, how crazy is that, but looking at what hes done, I reckon it's a goer, another lad is changing his swingarm and suspension from a bike you'd never think would go into a DT, but again hes having a go, if it works it works, if not then its just a case of changing to a different set up.
Cost wise I'm already quids in, as the price I paid for a Belgarda 4dl2 engine, plus 38mm Keihin carb, and barrell and head come to just over £100 pounds, you'll need to convert to Euros I know, but I reckon total cost will be about £375 to have the work done that I need doing, making it a total price of say £475-£490, about £50 pounds more than just buying a £440 quid 150cc kit from Germany, and remember I have the full stage 3 Belgarda engine, and a carb for £475, so like I say I'm on to a winner, providing it doesn't all blow up on me I know, but then again I could buy a 150cc kit from Germany and within 2-3 months have that blow up on me too, if say it was starved of 2t oil from the pump.

-- Edited by NEV on Monday 8th of October 2012 03:18:23 PM

miguelNS · DTR Respected Member

NEV wrote:
2.5mm oversize?! like 58.5mm?! thats to much, no?

No, not at all Miguel, my bike runs pretty good with a 2.5mm oversize piston. I think you underestimate our engineering capabilities over here mate, we're always trying to push the boundries, not just in making our bikes look good, but also having them perform to their best potential.

Not at all mate!!!! i dont underestimate you guys!! but there are certain things that i dont understant, and in the other side i cant explain me correctly too because of the lack knowledge in the english language. I dont know many technical words. But in my opinion the cylinder of dtr at 58.5mm its not reliable. Because the walls of the cylinder are very thin and they might bend ( that happened to me on a engine that i used to have). I dont dought that your bike runs smooth and perfectly fine!!! But here we usually say that stock cylinder measures are the ones that have more power :) Because if you dont need to go 5mm oversize, and i really thing thats too much, ur just ruining a cylinder, did i made my point? im just asking :) dont get me wrong mate!

DT-R_bradders · Guru

hats off to the hardcore modders!!! : )