DT125R ARCHIVE

Members Login
Username 
 
Password 
    Remember Me  
Post Info TOPIC: 4DL TZR Engine Unmaintained!


Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 7569
Date:
4DL TZR Engine Unmaintained!
Permalink  
 


I could tell by the photos that this one was going to be all sorts of nasty. The ad was minimalistic and the photos were horribly done.

$T2eC16d,!yME9s5qIFgtBRiidMe,OQ~~60_12.JPG

Ad reads

TZR 125R 4DL BELGARDA,18000 MILES,HAS NOT RUN FOR 12 MONTHS TURNS OVER, GOOD COMPRESSION,POSTAGE £35

?site=3&stg=1&mpt=1374250924597

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/151079217262?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649

So I was ready for the rust when it came. What really made me laugh (and trust me it made me laugh) was what followed....

Well packaged although the oil pump cover has been damaged!

TZR4DLBadBits1_zps596fb619.jpg

TZR4DLBadBits2_zps3e8f0b9c.jpg


P stamped head

TZR4DLBadBits3_zps470314f4.jpg

P stamped cylinder

TZR4DLBadBits4_zps66fd501e.jpg

4DL stamped bottom

TZR4DLBadBits5_zps216ef47c.jpg

Motori Minarelli Stamp PV cover

TZR4DLBadBits6_zps2dde2713.jpg

PV inside

TZR4DLBadBits7_zps9360dc9a.jpg

I had to be so careful here. Did not want any of these nasty rusted nuts to round and shear!

TZR4DLBadBits8_zps74f36f78.jpg

TZR4DLBadBits9_zps97c61b35.jpg

And this is what made me laugh once I lifted it!

TZR4DLBadBits10_zpse53fe19e.jpg

What are the three things you notice!

That doesn't read up to me?

TZR4DLBadBits12_zps24a30353.jpg

And look at the deposits on that gasket! That's not suppose to be like that!

TZR4DLBadBits13_zpseab9b0bc.jpg

On the plus side no signs of detenation on the head. Just dirty. I'll clean it all up and upload pics another day

TZR4DLBadBits15_zps17f93000.jpg

I'm not disapointed in the slightest. Just annoyed the ad blatenly lied. When I probably would have still paid asking price because I wanted to have it rebuilt anyway. So I have fired off a quick message.

Hello,

Thank you for the speedy postage. Much appreciated especially with such a bulky item I was pleased that you shipped it.

Just want to bring to your attention a few things and ask a few if I may?

Firstly was the oil pump cover broke when you sent it? Obviously the photo is blurred so you can't actually see in the photos. And this was not mentioned in the ad. Minor complaint. Still 5*'s don't worry.

Also although I had no intention on using this engine without of course a full rebuild it has come to my attention that this IS NOT (your words) good compression.

Firstly the head gasket was non genuine, Blown and UPSIDE DOWN. (Did make me chuckle). Because of this the inside of the bore has began to rust away and as such WILL need a rebore.

Other than those things JUST to bring to your attention pleased on the whole and will still give you top marks.

Thanks

Kind regards

Calum



__________________

Always Originate, Never Pirate!

The Leviathan Project



DTR Trusted Engine Builder

Status: Offline
Posts: 1723
Date:
Permalink  
 

WHAT DID U PAY FOR IT CAL

__________________


Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 7569
Date:
Permalink  
 

Alot. And i already know what you're going to say NORFE. I always pay too much

He wanted £350. I paid £300

__________________

Always Originate, Never Pirate!

The Leviathan Project



DTR Trusted Engine Builder

Status: Offline
Posts: 1723
Date:
Permalink  
 

lol plus 250 for the full rebuild, u puting it str8 in urs?

did u get the cdi with it aswell



__________________


Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 7569
Date:
Permalink  
 

Yeah. I've allocated about £500 for the rebuild.

No. I'm not going to bother with the cdi. He's got one for £40. But i've spoken to scrin and nev and provided you run the dtre servo you'll have no problems.

__________________

Always Originate, Never Pirate!

The Leviathan Project



DTR Trusted Engine Builder

Status: Offline
Posts: 1723
Date:
Permalink  
 

okidokey...500 bloody hel what u doin to it lol

full rebuild in spares costs 200 ish inc clutch plates, all bearings,gaskets seals, con rod, piston rebore†smile



__________________


Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 7569
Date:
Permalink  
 

Nothing but the best mate. Wossner con rods and koyo bearings. And port and tune the cylinder.

I value your opinion though NORFE.

__________________

Always Originate, Never Pirate!

The Leviathan Project



DTR Trusted Engine Builder

Status: Offline
Posts: 1723
Date:
Permalink  
 

a wunt bother just get pattern parts, just as good as any other †save ur self the money u will notice NO difference at all using top priced parts only thing ull do is be gutted wen it/if it blows up after all u spent on it

smile



__________________


Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 7569
Date:
Permalink  
 

PMJE then mate?

I only want reliability mate. The engine is going to be tuned so i want strong reliable parts. And i assume you'd have no reason to tell me false information.

__________________

Always Originate, Never Pirate!

The Leviathan Project



Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 7569
Date:
Permalink  
 

Yeah and pfft. It's only going to be a toy NORFE. Literally thats it. I'm going to keep my bottom end standard for when this 4DL seizes. Run the 3MB00P on the standard bottom end. And run rhe 4FU on the 4dl.

Reliability isn't going to be an issue to br fair.†

Edit: lmao! Just read my previous comments! Talk about contradicting myself. I only want reliable parts lol. Reliability lmao. Such a fanny some times. Oh god. I'm leaving it up there cause just shows how dumb i can be lol.†

No let me clear it up. I don't care about reliability. The engine won't be going in till next year once i've Got a car. This is literally going to be a toy. Just want nice strong parts that can take the extra strain on the engine. †


And i'll be keeping my old bottom end and the other 3mb00p cylinder standard. So i can swap them over straight away in case it goes poP.†



-- Edited by Calum122 on Saturday 20th of July 2013 07:18:35 AM

__________________

Always Originate, Never Pirate!

The Leviathan Project



DTR Trusted Engine Builder

Status: Offline
Posts: 1723
Date:
Permalink  
 

all off ebay or yambits thats were i get all parts from

mitaka piston

pattern conrod

koyo mains

pattern seals

pattern gasket

black head gasket

only thing that makes it reliable is running it std, the sate of std tune of that engine will run far better than urs now any way so just rebuild it and leave it std

soon as u start messing it makes it unreliable

u rebuilding it ur self



__________________


Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 2165
Date:
Permalink  
 

see i still think the porting on the 4fu barrels are better just look at the differences...

so much more care has been taken with the casting of it..

my 4fu barrel

and the ports are bulging out the sides alot more on the 4fu

cal get it cleaned up inside thos ports n lets av a look m8y



-- Edited by DT-R_bradders on Monday 22nd of July 2013 07:50:38 PM



-- Edited by DT-R_bradders on Monday 22nd of July 2013 07:51:07 PM

__________________

† † † † † † †



Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 7569
Date:
Permalink  
 

And the saga continues.

It's starting to look a bit better!

EngineCleanUp7_zpsb90396d2.jpg

EngineCleanUp8_zps72c2f5d8.jpg

TZR4DLBadBits16_zpsb122c5b3.jpg

EngineCleanUp1_zpsabb0d1e6.jpg

EngineCleanUp9_zps33fad2c5.jpg

TZR4DLBadBits17_zps8c30a0f3.jpg

The head and cylinder skimmed

EngineCleanUp3_zpsacc5293b.jpg

EngineCleanUp6_zps558870ce.jpg

EngineCleanUp4_zps5ce9ff8a.jpg

EngineCleanUp2_zps5b4c265f.jpg



__________________

Always Originate, Never Pirate!

The Leviathan Project



Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 849
Date:
Permalink  
 

Glad to see you are cracking on with the engine build you have been planning. I take it you †will build this one and have it ready for when the one in your bike breaks ect?

looking forward to seeing this develope apart from the grime ect can't see how that engine couldn't be a beutiful engine.†



__________________


Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 7569
Date:
Permalink  
 

The plan is is to get this engine running beautifully with a nicosil barrel i've got thats already spanking. The idea is to get this 4dl engine and nicosil barrel running as much brake horse power as possible. Aiming 20+ will get it dyno'd and post piccys. I'm keeping my expectations low. Its not going to be as fast as that YZ. Thats a given.

Then the engine in my bike. Its running lovely. Just low on compression. I'm going to take this 4DL top end. 3MB00P. Rebore and wossner piston. Everything else standard. Bang it on the the dt bottom end. And this will be the reliableish engine. It's never let me down so thats good. I'm going to order a 30mm Mikuni carb and jet to suit for the 4DL and just use the 28mm on the 3mb.

Store the reliable engine for when the 4dl breaks down. And at least then it's a days work for me to be back on the back wheel.

__________________

Always Originate, Never Pirate!

The Leviathan Project



Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 849
Date:
Permalink  
 

Sounds a good plan mate. I take it this is an older more powerful engine compared to the later restricted onEs. Do you think reliability will be a big problem given you know how to service and you are not some muppet red lining it continuously?



__________________


Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 7569
Date:
Permalink  
 

Yeah. I'll get some photos of my 4fu as well. How can i clean the transfer ports via conventional methods? White spirit?

__________________

Always Originate, Never Pirate!

The Leviathan Project



Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 2165
Date:
Permalink  
 

EngineCleanUp2_zps5b4c265f.jpg



__________________

† † † † † † †



Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 2165
Date:
Permalink  
 

can try that m8 get an old tooth brush in there if u can..



__________________

† † † † † † †



Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 7569
Date:
Permalink  
 

I'll put my two side by side when i get home.

__________________

Always Originate, Never Pirate!

The Leviathan Project



Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 2165
Date:
Permalink  
 

kl


__________________

† † † † † † †



Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 2165
Date:
Permalink  
 

have u got a normal 3mb head aswell cal take a pic of thos side by side

__________________

† † † † † † †



Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 7569
Date:
Permalink  
 

Some comparable photos of the 4DL 3MB00P and the 4HW 4FU00

First a quick video if you find this more useful.

CylinderComparison2_zpsd30baa60.jpg

CylinderComparison3_zpsf84f61d6.jpg

CylinderComparison5_zps0ad7caad.jpg

CylinderComparison6_zps6120f9e4.jpg

CylinderComparison4_zps2544cc53.jpg

CylinderComparison9_zps2769b73b.jpg

CylinderComparison1_zpsd8808ab3.jpg

CylinderComparison16_zps620e7af9.jpg

CylinderComparison11_zpsbb14cc08.jpg

CylinderComparison21_zpsbfc7b024.jpg

CylinderComparison15_zpsd0f2ffeb.jpg

CylinderComparison19_zps29c1dc12.jpg

CylinderComparison13_zps1fce995b.jpg

CylinderComparison17_zps3efb910c.jpg

I don't know whether that's clear on the photos but those transef ports on the 3MB are DEFINITELY bigger. HOWEVER the 3MB doesn't look anything special. I.e. nothing that couldn't be done to the 4FU. Remember! the 3MB00P is not the TZR-RR SP barrel. This is just a ported 3MB. So I reckon if you get the 4FU ported you could match this 3MB

Anyway I'm really basic at this so i'd be interested in seeing what you guys think.



__________________

Always Originate, Never Pirate!

The Leviathan Project



Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 7569
Date:
Permalink  
 

The easyest explanation of 3MB v's 4FU Inlet port angle area is this.
You stand in a long corridor, at the end is a door, you are just slim enought to fit through the door (in this scenario lol)

With the 3MB the door is facing you, you walk down the hall & through the door. easy
With the 4FU the doors the same size, but the corridor approaches from an angle.(ie the hinges on door are close to you the handle further away). You can no longer simply walk straight down the hall & through the door. Because even though the doors the same size, the same flow, ie you, cant pass through because the angles changed.
Thats the problem the 4FU has, almost identical port windows, but the wrong angles.

The 4FU i'd use if I was running in low rpms & wanted some extra torque & the 3MB/p id start with for h.p & higher rpm performance.
And I agree a 4FU could be ported (window size) like a 3MB but the main & aux inlet port widows angles are too restricted & rear facing so itl'll favour the lows, My friend has the 4HW and he wanted his 4FU to match the 3MBp but without filling in transfers & heavy reshaping its not possible. I have both barrels here. The port maps are very near identical is just the mean port angle areas & flow are quite different. Aswell as different squish band types. Contrary to the article I was under the impression the 3MB/p ran 6.75:1 Corrected Compression Ratio & the FU ran 7.1:1 CCR?

Thats a message i received off a lad via Youtube. I don't know how correct it is but it's very informative.

__________________

Always Originate, Never Pirate!

The Leviathan Project



DTR Senior Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 237
Date:
Permalink  
 

Does the tzr lump make a big difference then ? Guessing it just bolts in ?

I'm getting ideas lol.

__________________

03 Supermoto'd Dtr†

image-3.jpg



Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 7569
Date:
Permalink  
 

This is a special tzr engine. But yeah. The 2rh engine drops in. Should do a ton with the tzr engine.

__________________

Always Originate, Never Pirate!

The Leviathan Project



Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 544
Date:
Permalink  
 

So jealous cal :(

__________________

null_zpsc2aac655.jpgnull_zpsf20a8225.jpgnull_zps2f7502ea.jpg



Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 7569
Date:
Permalink  
 

Lol box ing what would you know. This isn't a normal engine.

bit.ly/17XeHGN
bit.ly/14nhT1s
bit.ly/17XeP9b
bit.ly/17Xf1oZ
bit.ly/17Xf2td
bit.ly/17Xf6ZX

Have a look through those. And you'll see what it's worth. My engine came complete. Gearbox all the gears. Fly wheel generator starter cylinder. Cylinder head. Powervalve powervalve motor. Inlet manifold. Fck me i mean it's £300 if i break the engine for parts. So i'm struggling to see how you think it's not worth the money.

Yeah you may not have paid that much for it i appreciate that. Bur at the price it was going for it was worth it all day long. I've seen them go on ebay for more than that before.

__________________

Always Originate, Never Pirate!

The Leviathan Project



DTR Mechanic

Status: Offline
Posts: 1161
Date:
Permalink  
 

Calum122 wrote:

Lol box ing what would you know. This isn't a normal engine.

bit.ly/17XeHGN
bit.ly/14nhT1s
bit.ly/17XeP9b
bit.ly/17Xf1oZ
bit.ly/17Xf2td
bit.ly/17Xf6ZX

Have a look through those. And you'll see what it's worth. My engine came complete. Gearbox all the gears. Fly wheel generator starter cylinder. Cylinder head. Powervalve powervalve motor. Inlet manifold. Fck me i mean it's £300 if i break the engine for parts. So i'm struggling to see how you think it's not worth the money.

Yeah you may not have paid that much for it i appreciate that. Bur at the price it was going for it was worth it all day long. I've seen them go on ebay for more than that before.


†Cause its a normal engine. Its just an old late 80,s early 90,s DT125RE TDR125 bottom end with the TZR tall gearbox in it, nothing special at all except the topend and any old DT topend could be ported to match or better. †



__________________

www.scrimsmustangsclassicyamaharestorations.com



Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 964
Date:
Permalink  
 

Should have gave the geezer a negative to warn future customers. That's what the feedback is for. Stop being soft on them.

Should have at least chased him for a part-refund. Not worth £300 IMHO.

__________________
1 2 310  >  Last»  | Page of 10  sorted by
Quick Reply

Please log in to post quick replies.

Tweet this page Post to Digg Post to Del.icio.us


Create your own FREE Forum
Report Abuse
Powered by ActiveBoard